Sociology professor Jen McGovern has been working with students at the higher ed level for more than 20 years. With roots in student affairs, and a deep appreciation for the value of sports in the lives of young people, Jen gives her perspective on the challenges and opportunities for K12 institutions from her unique position. Jeannine, Julie, Matt, and Mike ask Jen about cultivating curiosity, promoting self-directed learning, and the personalization of curriculum at all levels of education. Plugs include three other awesome podcasts: Nice White Parents, Heavy Medals, and Forward Progress. Music by Ketsa.